Brexit update

re Lancaster House - i took that as an expression of intent and to my eyes May was consistent in her strategy after that. Like I said - she may have been trying to hold her first love (the Conservative Party) together rather than implementing Brexit but Tomarto/Tomayto. Of course she then became the victim of confected outrage by Johnson with his own agenda and a bunch of opportunists riding on his coat tails.
 
re Lancaster House - i took that as an expression of intent and to my eyes May was consistent in her strategy after that. Like I said - she may have been trying to hold her first love (the Conservative Party) together rather than implementing Brexit but Tomarto/Tomayto. Of course she then became the victim of confected outrage by Johnson with his own agenda and a bunch of opportunists riding on his coat tails.

Perfectly put . The one thing you can be sure about Johnson as has been made clearer now to all in the last 2 years, is he has no interest in doing anything if it doesn’t profit himself. The infamous two articles he wrote on the eve of the referendum are testament to his self serving calculations.
He was then in the inconvenient situation ( for him ) of having to steer us through a series of national crises , all of which he and his hand picked bunch of useful idiots have made a spectacular mess of. The consequences will , I fear, be very damaging to the UKs long term security snd prosperity.
We have had the worst possible leadership at the worst possible time
 
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Perfectly put . The one thing you can be sure about Johnson as has been made clearer now to all in the last 2 years, is he has no interest in doing anything if it doesn’t profit himself. The infamous two articles he wrote on the eve of the referendum are testament to his self serving calculations.
He was then in the inconvenient situation ( for him ) of having to steer us through a series of national crises , all of which he and his hand picked bunch of useful idiots have made a spectacular mess of. The consequences will , I fear, be very damaging to the UKs long term security snd prosperity.
We have had the worst possible leadership at the worst possible time
The immediate consequence of this is the divisions his approach has created.

Remainers take no solace from highlighting the issues then & now, but are accused of being negative / unpatriotic / obstructors.

Leavers cannot bring themselves to admit that their vote was the wrong one, & now find themselves at the point of saying stuff along the lines of “I’m glad he (Johnson) or what the Tories are doing is great, because it annoys / angers you”.

The latter initially I thought was said in jest, but I’ve heard it so many times that I actually now think they believe it, perhaps because it’s all that’s left as a defence.
 
You remained types do really inhabit your own little bubble.

The referendum was given to the people not for them to make a choice but so that Cameron could unite his party and win an election, party politics pure and simple. He was 100% positive that remain would win, when they did not the entire British establishment was shocked and became united in cocking everything up to prove that they were right and those favouring Brexit were wrong.

Everything that has happened since is a direct consequence of that, and supported by the rabid remainers who will not admit that they lost the referendum fair and square. They are so embittered that they are perfectly happy to see the nation destroyed rather than attempt to make a success of it.

There is no argument to be made, they, the globalist/pro EU establishment and their remain loving supporter are complicit in the destruction of this country, you have in effect won, I no longer have an interest in the future of this country, as far as I am concerned, it does not have one, you a welcome to it.

As I said elsewhere, it no longer matters that much to me, the odd rant like this but it doesn't much matter, my close family are out of the country and my only concern now is looking after Mrs AFC which is well in hand.
 
If, and it is a big if, you are right why go through the pretence and cost of leaving? Why not simply say the referendum was only advisory after all?
 
Hi Sf, trust you are well.

Personally I think it is all just smoke and mirrors to keep the proles in line whilst bankrupting the country to make us even more impotent against the global shitstorm that is coming.

The money and expertise of the City of London is important to them, nothing else. We are just cattle.
 
They are so embittered that they are perfectly happy to see the nation destroyed rather than attempt to make a success of it.
Like I said, I take no comfort in highlighting the anticipated negatives of leaving then, & what we see happening now. There can be no pretence of what is clearly evident. But carry on inhibiting your own bubble in that case too - the deflections & denials From Leave voters are painful to witness regardless of the side you're on.

you have in effect won
You are kidding! We ALL lose!
As I said elsewhere, it no longer matters that much to me, the odd rant like this but it doesn't much matter, my close family are out of the country and my only concern now is looking after Mrs AFC which is well in hand.
Which explains your self-preservation stance. Virtually no different to the old codgers that happened to vote 'Leave' but when asked about the possible consequences of Brexit, replied with a giggle & said "Well I won't be around to see it anyway!".
 
Hi Sf, trust you are well.

Personally I think it is all just smoke and mirrors to keep the proles in line whilst bankrupting the country to make us even more impotent against the global shitstorm that is coming.

The money and expertise of the City of London is important to them, nothing else. We are just cattle.
Sadly some of us have to pay for that smoke and mirrors.
 
Like I said, I take no comfort in highlighting the anticipated negatives of leaving then, & what we see happening now. There can be no pretence of what is clearly evident. But carry on inhibiting your own bubble in that case too - the deflections & denials From Leave voters are painful to witness regardless of the side you're on.
The process was simple, but there was work required to be done to make it happen. The UK government, civil service and all of the 'organs' of the state made absolutely sure that none of it was done and that we did nothing to help ourselves. They are to blame for the current shitshow, not the leavers who wanted none of this.

You are kidding! We ALL lose!
In time, yes we do, well most of us, not the 'elites' obvously. But that is not the result of leaving the EU, it is the result of 5 years of total bollocks from the government and remainers refusing to do anything to move the country forward.

Which explains your self-preservation stance. Virtually no different to the old codgers that happened to vote 'Leave' but when asked about the possible consequences of Brexit, replied with a giggle & said "Well I won't be around to see it anyway!".
I may be old, but I am not a 'codger', voting leave was carefully thought out and considered, I would vote the same today.

I make no apologies about self preservation, there are, including a very aged parent, just the 3 of us in the uk, I will do what it takes to keep us as safe and well as I can
 
Sadly some of us have to pay for that smoke and mirrors.
The taxpayer will foot the bill as always. The most important thing to realise is that this is wasted money, just pissed up against the wall. Had we spent that money on a real Brexit, we would at least have the gotten ourselves into a position where we could start earning some of that money back.

Talking of leaving the EU, I am sure that you are aware that we are still, after Germany, the biggest contributor to the EU budget. Leaving eh.
 
That’s incredible knowing what you do now, particularly with the idiot we have in charge right now.

As I’ve said before, extremely entrenched.
Hi Mm.

Sorry I was not being clear. I am speaking theoretically, philosophically if you like.

Ie; I think that the EU is a corrupt, anti democratic, globalist cabal that I think no decent person should have anything to do with.

The practicalities of how we forge our way in the world is up to the government of the day, that since 2016 we have had a succession of remainer shitheads lying to the British people is not the fault of the vote, its is the result of some very nasty politics supported throughout by die hard remainers.

This is not the fault of the people, they voted for Brexit (that they were promised by the PM), that was never seriously attempted.
 
Hi Mm.

Sorry I was not being clear. I am speaking theoretically, philosophically if you like.

Ie; I think that the EU is a corrupt, anti democratic, globalist cabal that I think no decent person should have anything to do with.

The practicalities of how we forge our way in the world is up to the government of the day, that since 2016 we have had a succession of remainer shitheads lying to the British people is not the fault of the vote, its is the result of some very nasty politics supported throughout by die hard remainers.

This is not the fault of the people, they voted for Brexit (that they were promised by the PM), that was never seriously attempted.
AFC to say we haven’t left is absolute ridiculous . As is suggesting the execrable Gove et al are remainers .

Where are our MEPs ?
Why are our businesses hobbled by customs paperwork ?
Why have thousands of EU workers left ?
Why did Johnson sack any Tory with even a vague competence as they wanted to remain ?
Why is there a border in the Irish sea
Why can’t we deport European criminals to the EU any more ?
Why won’t the French impose the same level of border restrictions ?
Why are our fishermen unable to sell to European markets any more ?

It’s insane to say the hard Brexit these idiots pursued to save the Tory party at the expense of the country is absurd beyond reason
 
AFC to say we haven’t left is absolute ridiculous . As is suggesting the execrable Gove et al are remainers .

Where are our MEPs ?
Why are our businesses hobbled by customs paperwork ?
Why have thousands of EU workers left ?
Why did Johnson sack any Tory with even a vague competence as they wanted to remain ?
Why is there a border in the Irish sea
Why can’t we deport European criminals to the EU any more ?
Why won’t the French impose the same level of border restrictions ?
Why are our fishermen unable to sell to European markets any more ?

It’s insane to say the hard Brexit these idiots pursued to save the Tory party at the expense of the country is absurd beyond reason
I'll answer that. We are still in the EU.
Obviously.
 
Hi Fg.

I know you simply do not understand what I am saying which is why I rarely engage with you on this subject.

All of the points that you mention are issues brought up by the UK's reluctance to actually make any decisions and having the backbone to carry them out. nothing to do with the process of Brexit, everything to do with the process of government.

To put it simply, we are not in their club, we do not need to follow their rules,

Even more simply, follow the money, we are still the second biggest contributor to EU budget.
 
Ie; I think that the EU is a corrupt, anti democratic, globalist cabal that I think no decent person should have anything to do with.
And yet you voted for Brexit, still would today & also voted Tory in the last election.

Clearly your quest for new ways of seeing how politicians can demonstrate means of corruption & anti-democracy continues…
 
And yet you voted for Brexit, still would today & also voted Tory in the last election.

Clearly your quest for new ways of seeing how politicians can demonstrate means of corruption & anti-democracy continues…
We have a process in this country where we, the people, vote for parties/people based on what they tell us they are going to do. Strangely we are required to vote before they actually do anything, you know, not with hindsight. A few people on here find that hard to understand.

I voted Leave based on what I was told by the legal, democratically elected prime minister of this country.

I voted for Johnson based on his promise to 'get Brexit done' as opposed to the £3 tramp who would not tell us what is policy actually was.

Only logical choice.
 
We have a process in this country where we, the people, vote for parties/people based on what they tell us they are going to do. Strangely we are required to vote before they actually do anything, you know, not with hindsight. A few people on here find that hard to understand.

I voted Leave based on what I was told by the legal, democratically elected prime minister of this country.

I voted for Johnson based on his promise to 'get Brexit done' as opposed to the £3 tramp who would not tell us what is policy actually was.

Only logical choice.
But you must have known he is a pathological liar even then?
 
At least that explains why we are paying them huge amounts of money. And following their rules.
No, that is because the so-called oven ready deal you voted for him on the back of was anything but.
 
But you must have known he is a pathological liar even then?
Cameron no, as the Prime minister of this country I expected better.

Johnson, I kind of hoped that he might fancy himself as some Lind of Churchillian saviour, ludicrous in retrospect but the £3 tramp, I mean seriously...:ROFLMAO:
No, that is because the so-called oven ready deal you voted for him on the back of was anything but.
They lied. Surprisingly, that was not my fault.

Strangely no one else is prepared to be open about who they voted for or what they thought at the time. Intellectual cowardice.
 
Johnson, I kind of hoped that he might fancy himself as some Lind of Churchillian saviour,
That’s the problem - he does. In January 2020, he saw the rest of the year as some sort of victory lap where he would bluff & bluster towards a version of Brexit that no-one actually voted for, or foresaw.

With the pandemic arriving, we got the worst person at the worst time.
Strangely no one else is prepared to be open about who they voted for or what they thought at the time. Intellectual cowardice
You volunteered the info of your own accord. There’s no point in trying to assuage your guilt or engage in a game of ‘Whatabouttery’ by finding out what everyone else did.

Your own intelligence will inform you that some of us didn’t vote Leave in 2016 nor Tory in 2019.
 
That’s the problem - he does. In January 2020, he saw the rest of the year as some sort of victory lap where he would bluff & bluster towards a version of Brexit that no-one actually voted for, or foresaw.

With the pandemic arriving, we got the worst person at the worst time.

You volunteered the info of your own accord. There’s no point in trying to assuage your guilt or engage in a game of ‘Whatabouttery’ by finding out what everyone else did.

Your own intelligence will inform you that some of us didn’t vote Leave in 2016 nor Tory in 2019.
If you did not vote for those options as you say, then tell us what you did and why. Frightened your arguments will not hold water?

I have put forward my views and allowed others to comment, I have explained and defended my actions

Unlike the rest of you who are simply afraid of doing either. Intellectual pigmies who will not explain their actions or their thought processes, possibly because of their strict adherence to 'woke' politics, maybe something else?

Not my problem in general, but debating someone who is open and honest, but of a different opinion, is challenging for you.
 
It's simple. I have never and never will vote Tory.
Even if, by some 'miracle' they have the best policies at that time?

I suppose that it could be a trust issue, but after Blair, can you seriously defend voting Labour?
Can someone please explain why wage inflation for the working population in average wage jobs is a bad thing?
It isn't if it is a natural response to market pressures.

In a (badly) managed economy it leads to general inflation that fucks up pretty much everyone (bar the rich obviously).
 
But there are market pressures due to a restriction on skills.

HGV drivers, sparkys, plumbers, plasterers. I could go on.

There are hotels in the Lake District currently shut as they can’t get the staff.

Theres no growth in “white collar” wages. This is a long overdue realignment in “worth” which is only a good thing.
 
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