Must Read! Martin Samuel Article in Today's "Sunday Times"!

Sohofox

Sohofox

Roofer
About the Premier League are out to kill LCFC off.
Best read I've ever seen.
Sorry can't do links.
Found it on Foxestalk - PSR issues.
 
Leicester victims of PSR quadruple jeopardy

Leicester City would like to make a managerial change; that much seems obvious. Ruud van Nistelrooy won four league matches in his tenure, two of which came after relegation, against teams that, like Leicester, were already down. They cannot move, however, because of Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR). Leicester already fear a vindictive 12-point deduction in the Championship next season, and paying off Van Nistelrooy would make their financial predicament worse. Any player who may be considered an asset, such as goalkeeper Mads Hermansen, will have to be sold, weakening them further. Russell Martin, considered a managerial target, has now taken the job at Rangers, and there is a worry that two other candidates, Danny Röhl, of Sheffield Wednesday, and Sean Dyche, may be lost to them too.

Leicester erred with Van Nistelrooy, and that’s what PSR does — it cements mistakes in place, with no second chances. So Leicester will be relegated, suffer a points deduction in the league below and conduct a fire sale of what little talent the club do possess, while being stuck with a manager who has shown little aptitude for the job. No one is arguing the club have not been run poorly, but PSR ensures they get no opportunity to change course. This isn’t double jeopardy, it’s quadruple jeopardy. It is almost as if the Premier League won’t rest until it kills a club, just to show it can.
 
wints said:
Leicester victims of PSR quadruple jeopardy

Leicester City would like to make a managerial change; that much seems obvious. Ruud van Nistelrooy won four league matches in his tenure, two of which came after relegation, against teams that, like Leicester, were already down. They cannot move, however, because of Profitability and Sustainability Rules (PSR). Leicester already fear a vindictive 12-point deduction in the Championship next season, and paying off Van Nistelrooy would make their financial predicament worse. Any player who may be considered an asset, such as goalkeeper Mads Hermansen, will have to be sold, weakening them further. Russell Martin, considered a managerial target, has now taken the job at Rangers, and there is a worry that two other candidates, Danny Röhl, of Sheffield Wednesday, and Sean Dyche, may be lost to them too.

Leicester erred with Van Nistelrooy, and that’s what PSR does — it cements mistakes in place, with no second chances. So Leicester will be relegated, suffer a points deduction in the league below and conduct a fire sale of what little talent the club do possess, while being stuck with a manager who has shown little aptitude for the job. No one is arguing the club have not been run poorly, but PSR ensures they get no opportunity to change course. This isn’t double jeopardy, it’s quadruple jeopardy. It is almost as if the Premier League won’t rest until it kills a club, just to show it can.
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I’m avin a few £ on us if this happens 👍 automatic promotion
 
Quite right. I understand the original intention of stopping clubs just spending their way to glory but in our case they are just punishing us for gross ineptitude. Isn't relegation punishment enough?
 
No one is arguing the club have not been run poorly, but PSR ensures they get no opportunity to change course.
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When have they demonstrated that they want to change course? Stupid is supposed to hurt.
 
It's like blaming the police for catching a burglar. Other clubs operate within the rules OK.
We are serial offenders and will have to pay the price, ironically the rules now tightened as a result of us exposing their poor drafting :rolleyes:
 
Oadlad said:
Other clubs operate within the rules OK
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Apart from Everton & Forest who were caught but realised that the key was that if you were going to break the rules the key was to at least stay up and kick the can down the road.

And of course Manchester City & Chelsea who, it seems, know how to play the game.
 
We can only blame ourselves the financial manager has a budget and breaks it, Its no good crying afterwards. we know the system is set up for the big boys so why give them ammunition? These people do not take prisoners its black and white. We have overpaid on wages and transfers fees. The only thing I would argue is how do Man City and Chelsea get away with it? Anyway as they say it is what it is lets play the kids and take a punt on a manager that is not on the usual merry go round,
 
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Full of opinion and very little fact.

Why don't we just wait and see what happens. PSR is broken but we have been as devious as the rule makers.

Anyway I want a Villa is Spain when I retire. Doesn't mean I will get it.
 
Oadlad said:
It's like blaming the police for catching a burglar. Other clubs operate within the rules OK.
We are serial offenders and will have to pay the price, ironically the rules now tightened as a result of us exposing their poor drafting :rolleyes:
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We may be "serial offenders" but what exactly have we done? Bought crap players at over inflated prices and paid over inflated wages to duds. Stupidity yes. But what harm have we done to anyone apart from ourselves? As someone said, if that is our crime then the law is an ass.
 
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OldFox said:
We may be "serial offenders" but what exactly have we done? Bought crap players at over inflated prices and paid over inflated wages to duds. Stupidity yes. But what harm have we done to anyone apart from ourselves? As someone said, if that is our crime then the law is an ass.
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The players we bought this last season were never going to keep us up.
El Khanous excepted.
 
In all honesty, we deserve everything they throw at us. We knew they would be looking at us closely but still we can't manage to get anything right.
Whelan & Rudkin have to go !!
Top should go as well but he is protected as the owner.
Nowhere in business do top executives get to continually screw up & continue to keep their jobs.
 
DagenhamFox said:
I’ve long said now we’ve made our bed and now we’re lying in it.

Whatever happens it’s all our own doing.
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Is it though?
I see where you’re coming from but had Everton been given the points deduction at the right time we wouldn’t have gone down?
Had we spent to the extent that Everton and Forest did we may not have gone down.
Had Man City been charged correctly then we would have had another season of CL football.
If we’d have abused the rules and sold 18 year olds for tens of millions or the training ground to ourselves we may not be facing these charges.

We are being made an example of when so many others have clearly got away with it.
 
We started with an 8th place PL budget then faced the covid loss of income then relegation and couldn't move players on which prolonged the issue. There seems to be little mitigation offered around that, and it's something that the club simply cannot control - if nobody will take them what are we to do?

In hindsight it's easy to see what we should and shouldn't have done, and there's no doubt that we have made stupid decisions around recruitment and contracts, but it seems to me that we're going to be made an example of as much out of spite than our own failings.

That said, the law being an arse and all that, if we get away with it again the PL will look totally incompetent and God knows where that'll lead.
 
Truro12 said:
faced the covid loss of income
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Whilst I don't disagree with the central points, you keep mentioning this (even though it pre-dated the 8th placed PL budget) but I am not sure of the relevance. Assuming you mean those for LCFC rather than KP's (and if KP's I don't see the relevance as it doesn't change the maths), those losses were add backs in PSR or are you alluding to something more nuanced about them?
 
All clubs lost a huge chunk of revenue during the covid restrictions which is captured in the rolling three year losses. It's a significant loss of income, especially for a club operating at the maximum permissible budget, and this doesn't seem to have been factored in to the decisions, all of which kicked in since those covid-related shortfalls. PSR isn't new (started 2013/14) but all the charges have come about since 2021 which is why it seems important but maybe I'm missing something.
 
Problem is that helicopter crash robbed us of one heck of a brilliant businessman in Vichai. Supremely talented in everything that he turned his hand to both in Thailand and at LCFC.
He was the core of everything City achieved.
Its similar at Brighton where that Tony Bloom looks similarly gifted.
Its not Top's fault that he was thrust into a position that he was not even remotely qualified to take on. It was fate.
A fate which dealt us a cruel blow with that dodgy helicopter.
 
I was stating a black and white case but behind the figures are consistant poor judgements,
Which suggests to me that when we got ourselves into the highest reaches of football business we were lacking the necessary
ability to stay there.
It's surprising as Top has some years of operating a much bigger business in Kingpower so should be better equiped.
Rudkin, we know, is out of his depth, with no business training whilst Whelan's expertise is in retail.
I can only guess that Top has been concentrating on Kingpower's post Covid recovery.
Having long called for a new DoF I am now thinking we need an experinced MD...
 
Soho, I made that point some time ago but we have had plenty of time to recognise that we were light at board level and rectify it.
It is not just that the dynamic shifted to the inexperenced son's DoF but that they soldier on without any apparent idea of the solution.
Time to either head hunt a man proven in successful running of a top level club or advertise for somebody who might take it on.
A poisoned chalice? Yes but there are people who relish such challenges and it's time we found one.
Or a long stretch of mediocrity and the surrender of our recent success beckons.
 
Truro12 said:
All clubs lost a huge chunk of revenue during the covid restrictions which is captured in the rolling three year losses. It's a significant loss of income, especially for a club operating at the maximum permissible budget, and this doesn't seem to have been factored in to the decisions, all of which kicked in since those covid-related shortfalls. PSR isn't new (started 2013/14) but all the charges have come about since 2021 which is why it seems important but maybe I'm missing something.
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From a purely PSR perspective all clubs accounted for COVID losses and those losses were added back in the same way that spending on Youth, Women & Community are. The accounts were also averaged across 2019/20 & 2020/21 (because of the delay to the end of 2019/20). Our COVID losses were £13.8m in 2019/20, £36.1m in 2020/21 (there was also a small addback for COVID in 2021/22) and are not included in PSR.

I guess you could argue that there were other impacts not accounted for (such as the COVID pause impacting later revenue as clubs had to build up again and Everton tried to claim that COVID supressed transfer fees limiting their ability to raise funds through profit on player sales) but it's a little tenuous and I think UEFA didn't believe the losses that English clubs estimated which is why we & others were put on their naughty step.

COVID clearly didn't help but, whilst significant in its impact on revenue, doesn't seem to me to be significant for PSR & later budgets. I don't think it should be allowed to draw attention away from the primary cause which was largely based on poor recruitment & even more significantly the contracts handed out to players (and a manager).
 
hackneyfox said:
Is it though?
I see where you’re coming from but had Everton been given the points deduction at the right time we wouldn’t have gone down?
Had we spent to the extent that Everton and Forest did we may not have gone down.
Had Man City been charged correctly then we would have had another season of CL football.
If we’d have abused the rules and sold 18 year olds for tens of millions or the training ground to ourselves we may not be facing these charges.

We are being made an example of when so many others have clearly got away with it.
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We can’t control what others have done we can only control what we do. Yes you could argue timing was bad and had Covid not hit we may well have finished 4th but it did hit. We were slow after the break, much slower than Yanited, but that too was our doing.
 
FoxInEssex said:
Full of opinion and very little fact.

Why don't we just wait and see what happens. PSR is broken but we have been as devious as the rule makers.

Anyway I want a Villa is Spain when I retire. Doesn't mean I will get it.
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If you want a Villa in Spain plan it and get one, it really is up to you.
 
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