StupIDPol

Woke is a stupid word.

The original meaning has been completely lost.

Seems to be thrown around at people who moan about stuff. So every fucker is "woke" then. Whether you are "woke" to funny clouds, political correctness, the number 33, social injustice or the BCC. All it means is that you give a fuck about something. Load of shite.
 
Woke has come to mean something quite specific to me and, I believe, many others.

It is simple enough, it describes an adherence to a set of 'rules' and ideas that, sometime in the distant past were designed to support equality, inclusivity and tolerance, all quite laudable in my view.

In more recent times these ideas have been 'politically formalised' to the point that the rules must be adhered to, whatever the consequences of doing so, even when demonstrably counter productive.

Break any of these rules, even inadvertently, and you are in trouble, the penalties are severe, you may lose your friends, your job and become a non person.
 
To be fair Dorset. That's not a bad interpretation of the more worrying modern version of "woke". Rather than the version thrown about like confetti, at someone who has disagreed about something. The version you describe is something I have witnessed. Where you can't have a say about an issue or situation, that is counter to the narrative. Seen it in the workplace. Actually witnessed senior executives informing all employees not to have an opinion, about another member of staff.
 
i accept there is overlap, but AFC seems to be describing 'cancel culture' more than woke-ness. as i interpret them anyway.

cancel culture is properly mental.
 
Adumass.

Cancel culture is the weapon of choice for the 'woke', it serves their purpose and is used on anyone that they feel is not fully onboard with their ridiculous ideas, particularly nasty if you are someone with any sort of public profile.

I very much doubt if cancel culture would exist if it wasn't for the woke agenda.

Sixthswan.

It is in the workplace where it is most obvious but one area that troubles me is schools.
 
AFCDorset said:
Break any of these rules, even inadvertently, and you are in trouble, the penalties are severe, you may lose your friends, your job and become a non person.
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Because it's been embraced by the corporate world in an attempt to be relevant to their target audience. That's a business decision and legitimised it in the mainstream.
 
AFCDorset said:
Adumass.

Cancel culture is the weapon of choice for the 'woke', it serves their purpose and is used on anyone that they feel is not fully onboard with their ridiculous ideas, particularly nasty if you are someone with any sort of public profile.

I very much doubt if cancel culture would exist if it wasn't for the woke agenda.

Sixthswan.

It is in the workplace where it is most obvious but one area that troubles me is schools.
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But it works the other way as well. Some people generally feel empowered to say whatever they want without understanding what the consequences are or what offence it may cause.

Over the last few years, the likes of Trump, Farage & even Johnson have legitimised & allowed that empowerment. It may not always be worded in the crass way that the likes of the NF or BNP would have back in the day, but it generally makes those people feel better having outright racist views while still claiming to be friendly with black work colleagues & having the odd Indian takeaway as evidence of their broad-mindedness.
 
Mistryman said:
But it works the other way as well. Some people generally feel empowered to say whatever they want without understanding what the consequences are or what offence it may cause.

Over the last few years, the likes of Trump, Farage & even Johnson have legitimised & allowed that empowerment. It may not always be worded in the crass way that the likes of the NF or BNP would have back in the day, but it generally makes those people feel better having outright racist views while still claiming to be friendly with black work colleagues & having the odd Indian takeaway as evidence of their broad-mindedness.
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Morning Mistryman,

Don't really agree, yes people say some pretty crass things on occasion but sometimes speaking the truth can be painful.

It is my view that the current agenda, so firmly focussed on race, is actually making the situation worse. As you know, I very much 'plough my own furrow' and am not afraid to express my views. I am perfectly happy to discuss most issues and am happy to do so in a forthright manner, if that offends some people that is fine with me.
 
AFCDorset said:
It is my view that the current agenda, so firmly focussed on race, is actually making the situation worse.
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There’s the problem in a nutshell. If people think there’s too much focus on it, it gets dismissed as problematic, troublesome, irritating & ultimately nothing gets solved. We then end up with a situation where some dig their heels in further, possibly because they just don’t want change to happen.

Too little focus on it, & those same people (rightly or wrongly) think there’s no issues, & then wonder why others are highlighting them.
 
Mistryman said:
There’s the problem in a nutshell. If people think there’s too much focus on it, it gets dismissed as problematic, troublesome, irritating & ultimately nothing gets solved. We then end up with a situation where some dig their heels in further, possibly because they just don’t want change to happen.

Too little focus on it, & those same people (rightly or wrongly) think there’s no issues, & then wonder why others are highlighting them.
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Indeed it is, interesting reply and, for me, the argument runs both ways.

'Reverse racism' (anti white) which is such a feature of the 'woke' agenda is every bit as bad as any other form of racism, something that has long since become lost in the argument.

Then of course there is the argument about what is justified criticism of the behaviour of an individual or a group, it is not inherently racist to criticise bad behaviour, all people should be held to the same standards.

Which of course brings us to the question of standards, England is at its core a white, christian, democracy (of sorts) and those are the standards that should apply. I have no great regard for the application of 'cultural relativism', how people live in their own country is up to them, usually not my business, but how people behave in this country is.

Unlike others who are wary of expressing such views, I am quite clear on this, if you wish to live in the UK then you abide by the country's laws and social norms. If you do not then you must expect to be criticised, told to mend your ways and if necessary asked to leave.
 
AFCDorset said:
country's laws and social norms.
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And those should always be evolving. No doubt there are some who would prefer a country where “men were men” & for “women to know their place” & possibly for anyone not fitting the description of a typical English person as you described, to be subservient &/or to be seen as a lesser citizen regardless.
 
Mistryman said:
And those should always be evolving. No doubt there are some who would prefer a country where “men were men” & for “women to know their place” & possibly for anyone not fitting the description of a typical English person as you described, to be subservient &/or to be seen as a lesser citizen regardless.
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Of course they should be evolving, but they should be doing so with the support of all the population and right now that is simply not the case.

Sorry Mm, but the rest of your post is simply 'straw man' nonsense, where did I describe at 'typical English person' or indulge in any 'men were men' nonsense.

Not trying to be rude, I engage with you because you are often thoughtful and usually rational, but this is pure projection, and to be honest, the kind of nonsense that makes rational discussion quite difficult. You see the problem, you are projecting views on to me that I do not have, they are a function of your prejudices not mine.

As I have said many times, I believe in equality (of opportunity) and freedom of choice, I hold everyone to the same standards and fully expect the same to apply to me. Those standards are, primarily English standards and I make no apology for that.
 
AFCDorset said:
Of course they should be evolving, but they should be doing so with the support of all the population and right now that is simply not the case.
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On that basis, change would never happen.
AFCDorset said:
Sorry Mm, but the rest of your post is simply 'straw man' nonsense, where did I describe at 'typical English person' or indulge in any 'men were men' nonsense.
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I never said you did. But that’s where we would be if we were reliant on changes which all the population supported.
AFCDorset said:
Not trying to be rude, I engage with you because you are often thoughtful and usually rational, but this is pure projection, and to be honest, the kind of nonsense that makes rational discussion quite difficult. You see the problem, you are projecting views on to me that I do not have, they are a function of your prejudices not mine.
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I have no intention of projecting my views - it is merely a discussion. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t make it nonsense.
AFCDorset said:
primarily English standards
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I had no idea they were copyrighted. The ‘English’ part is totally unnecessary otherwise it just sounds aloof.
 
Mistryman said:
On that basis, change would never happen.

I never said you did. But that’s where we would be if we were reliant on changes which all the population supported.

I have no intention of projecting my views - it is merely a discussion. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t make it nonsense.

I had no idea they were copyrighted. The ‘English’ part is totally unnecessary otherwise it just sounds aloof.
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I accept the first part of that, it was poorly written on my part. I really should have spoken about a consensus, unanimity is not going to happen in these circumstances, neither should it be required.

The nonsense here is not the disagreement, it is the fact that you are 'disagreeing' with views that you have projected onto me and that I do not, in any way hold.

I am not sure what you are getting at with your final point, 'English standards' is simply descriptive of the standards of the dominant culture of the UK.
 
Mistryman said:
On that basis, change would never happen.

I never said you did. But that’s where we would be if we were reliant on changes which all the population supported.

I have no intention of projecting my views - it is merely a discussion. Just because I disagree with you doesn’t make it nonsense.

I had no idea they were copyrighted. The ‘English’ part is totally unnecessary otherwise it just sounds aloof.
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It all depends on if that change made is for the better? As AFC said this is basically a white Christian country with a culture and heritage built over many many years. If people decide to come here and take advantage of the benefits then they should adapt to a certain lifestyle and not expect the population to adapt to there own. This has always been a country of live and let live but at the moment we are meant to feel guilty for being English and proud of it.
 
AFCDorset said:
I am not sure what you are getting at with your final point, 'English standards' is simply descriptive of the standards of the dominant culture of the UK.
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Standards are standards regardless - my interpretation of that is to treat someone with respect, giving a person regardless of their background or skin colour an equal opportunity.

I don’t think of that as necessarily an English thing. Of course, there may be other things which one can interpret as “English” but then we’d be here all day.
Running Fox said:
If people decide to come here and take advantage of the benefits then they should adapt to a certain lifestyle and not expect the population to adapt to there own.
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I’d say the majority do just that - like any society there are those that choose not to, be they ‘immigrant’ or ‘indigenous’.
Running Fox said:
at the moment we are meant to feel guilty for being English and proud of it.
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There’s lots of things to be proud of, for being English. However, it can’t be denied that the last few years have resulted in some defending anything & everything, even if it’s an obviously negative or detrimental thing.
 
I do not feel remotely guilty for being English.
Mistryman said:
Standards are standards regardless - my interpretation of that is to treat someone with respect, giving a person regardless of their background or skin colour an equal opportunity.

I don’t think of that as necessarily an English thing. Of course, there may be other things which one can interpret as “English” but then we’d be here all day.
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Which is something I said back in post 18. Equality of opportunity and freedom of choice.

What I interpret as English is 800 years of history and achievement, I am not going to allow a few knuckle draggers and football hooligans spoil that.
 
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