This ere rail strike then.

Well first off I think these "facts" are being spun to suit an argument. On the face of it if I were on the receiving end I wouldn't be happy. As I said earlier Rail Track is operating with a lot of the old restrictive practices of BR days so some of them need bringing into line with the modern world simply because it's costing vast amounts of public money to run it and the reality is there needs to be savings

It is a sad fact that we have become a society where weekends are just another day and receiving premium rates for working them is no longer the norm, railways need maintenance to be completed when there are less trains running so evening/weekend/bank holiday working is inevitable

I don't blame the unions for fighting their corner but there is a lot of half truths going around and winding people up. Like it or not things must change
 
Well first off I think these "facts" are being spun to suit an argument. On the face of it if I were on the receiving end I wouldn't be happy. As I said earlier Rail Track is operating with a lot of the old restrictive practices of BR days so some of them need bringing into line with the modern world simply because it's costing vast amounts of public money to run it and the reality is there needs to be savings

It is a sad fact that we have become a society where weekends are just another day and receiving premium rates for working them is no longer the norm, railways need maintenance to be completed when there are less trains running so evening/weekend/bank holiday working is inevitable

I don't blame the unions for fighting their corner but there is a lot of half truths going around and winding people up. Like it or not things must change
But giving millions to share holders rather than use that money to help fund modernisation should stay the same.
 
Exactly.
Reduce the shareholder profits and look after your staff.
Modernisation is a continual process for any organisation.
It should involve doing things better and shouldn't exclude fairness.
 
Exactly.
Reduce the shareholder profits and look after your staff.
Modernisation is a continual process for any organisation.
It should involve doing things better and shouldn't exclude fairness.
The public are the shareholders in Rail Track. Trying to be fair to everyone is tricky
 
It's happened because we've all embraced it in the same way that whilst we complain that football matches are moved to suit the TV none of us have cancelled our Sky subscriptions. We want shops open 24 hours, next day deliveries of anything, a man in a funny hat arrives on a bike to bring your takeaway, we're all guilty of it.
 
It's happened because we've all embraced it in the same way that whilst we complain that football matches are moved to suit the TV none of us have cancelled our Sky subscriptions. We want shops open 24 hours, next day deliveries of anything, a man in a funny hat arrives on a bike to bring your takeaway, we're all guilty of it.
Who is driving what in your argument? People might have grumbled about shit opening hours & having to wait for deliveries but it had been like that for decades. Apart from respective pressure groups people weren't really banging on doors threatening the overthrow of the established order demanding it all, companies saw the opportunity & governments enabled it. As always "we" embraced what was given to us, not what "we" demanded. One company goes for it, the others follow (usually because they have to in the name of competition) and so do we we. But none of that is a reason or excuse for allowing the erosion of workers rights. If you as a company want to provide that service at a weekend then fine (and thank you, I embraced it in relation to train travel; shopping other than offies and pubs I don't care about) but recognise that that means that your workers may well be inconvenienced by that (well, your rail company/shop etc. might work monday through sunday but what if your worker's partners are on more traditional work patterns, your kids in school?).
 
Many years ago I argued on here that Sunday opening was a bad thing and I was called a dinosaur I believe it’s called progress. I assume the majority of people now employed in retail were taken on under the new terms and conditions. If the public cared about family members working outside of conventional times they should have just boycotted the shops

Heavy industry has worked shifts for as long as I can remember I can’t ever recall mass protests about it.

The railways have always been 24/7 though granted the Sunday services are far more frequent which in turn has presented a problem to Rail Track in terms of access to track work to repair (hands up if you’ve moaned about bus replacements) Infact there are far fewer over night passenger services than 20 years ago but I don’t believe that has anything to do with this dispute

London has been a 24/7 city for a long time now, the rest of the UK is just catching up, it ain’t going to change now
 
We may be 24 hour cities now, still doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t get a premium for working non social shifts and hardly ever seeing your family.
 
Many years ago I argued on here that Sunday opening was a bad thing and I was called a dinosaur I believe it’s called progress. I assume the majority of people now employed in retail were taken on under the new terms and conditions. If the public cared about family members working outside of conventional times they should have just boycotted the shops

Heavy industry has worked shifts for as long as I can remember I can’t ever recall mass protests about it.

The railways have always been 24/7 though granted the Sunday services are far more frequent which in turn has presented a problem to Rail Track in terms of access to track work to repair (hands up if you’ve moaned about bus replacements) Infact there are far fewer over night passenger services than 20 years ago but I don’t believe that has anything to do with this dispute

London has been a 24/7 city for a long time now, the rest of the UK is just catching up, it ain’t going to change now

I am sure that you are right that the public/we don't care about working hours when taking advantage of them and you are probably right that workers working unsociable hours (of which there are many millions of people whatever your definition those hours are) probably were taken on under T&Cs that reflected that (though family members who do work very unsociable hours in the retail sector do so at different rates of pay to those working during the day which is why they do them).

And you are right that rarely people have protested about shift work usually I suspect because people knew what they were signing up to when they took the jobs on. (And, yes, I do plenty of work outside of 9 to 5 Mon-Fri though not in a shift environment, and frankly I had no idea it would need to be so often though I can in theory just not do it though I wouldn't last long!).

But bringing it back to the dispute, as you say, the railways have always been 24/7, so if they have always been and it is just 'us' who are catching up how would that justify changing previously agreed T&Cs?
 
I am sure that you are right that the public/we don't care about working hours when taking advantage of them and you are probably right that workers working unsociable hours (of which there are many millions of people whatever your definition those hours are) probably were taken on under T&Cs that reflected that (though family members who do work very unsociable hours in the retail sector do so at different rates of pay to those working during the day which is why they do them).

And you are right that rarely people have protested about shift work usually I suspect because people knew what they were signing up to when they took the jobs on. (And, yes, I do plenty of work outside of 9 to 5 Mon-Fri though not in a shift environment, and frankly I had no idea it would need to be so often though I can in theory just not do it though I wouldn't last long!).

But bringing it back to the dispute, as you say, the railways have always been 24/7, so if they have always been and it is just 'us' who are catching up how would that justify changing previously agreed T&Cs?
Rightly or otherwise the pandemic has taken the top 25% of the revenue out of the system The public subsidised the railways by vast amounts during the pandemic but the customers haven’t returned and now the railways need even more support, Rail Track have been tasked with saving £4 billion which is the justification in the change of T&Cs. That is the unpleasant maybe even unpalatable situation the railways are in, all pretty shitty if you’re on the receiving end but it is the reasoning behind this situation
 
Rightly or otherwise the pandemic has taken the top 25% of the revenue out of the system The public subsidised the railways by vast amounts during the pandemic but the customers haven’t returned and now the railways need even more support, Rail Track have been tasked with saving £4 billion which is the justification in the change of T&Cs. That is the unpleasant maybe even unpalatable situation the railways are in, all pretty shitty if you’re on the receiving end but it is the reasoning behind this situation
See previous posts
 
Yet another absurd and abhorrent abuse of the situation but 10K won't go far amongst the staff that are on strike
They don't break safety rules but there seems little point if there are no trains
No they're not

There is money for a pay rise but not the amount they're asking for, whilst things are difficult be moderate, when things pick up that is the time to demand more money
Yes they are.
Office based staff received £400 for their "Training" on the station, & an additional £270 supplement for covering a shift during the strike.
In addition to being given overnight hotel accommodation.
 
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