Leave.

Socialists will have been Leave voters, as the EU is a neoliberal organisation.

I'm sure a lot of Mirror readers are economically left-wing, but firmly socially conservative.
 
sixthswan said:
Socialists will have been Leave voters, as the EU is a neoliberal organisation.

I'm sure a lot of Mirror readers are economically left-wing, but firmly socially conservative.
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it is becoming increasingly difficult to categorise people with the old style 'left/right' labels, they are rapidly becoming redundant. I have long considered the political axis to be three dimensional, left/right horizontal and authoritarian/liberal on the vertical axis.

Now even that model is falling apart as modern politics does not appear to allow for any shades of thought or opinion.

We are succombing to tribalism now, no dissenting views are allowed.
 
AFCDorset said:
it is becoming increasingly difficult to categorise people with the old style 'left/right' labels, they are rapidly becoming redundant. I have long considered the political axis to be three dimensional, left/right horizontal and authoritarian/liberal on the vertical axis.

Now even that model is falling apart as modern politics does not appear to allow for any shades of thought or opinion.

We are succombing to tribalism now, no dissenting views are allowed.
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That's two dimensions.
 
AFCDorset said:
it is becoming increasingly difficult to categorise people with the old style 'left/right' labels, they are rapidly becoming redundant. I have long considered the political axis to be three dimensional, left/right horizontal and authoritarian/liberal on the vertical axis.

Now even that model is falling apart as modern politics does not appear to allow for any shades of thought or opinion.

We are succombing to tribalism now, no dissenting views are allowed.be reflected in
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Completely agree that the L/R labels are far from a complete guide, probably never have been in reality. Political scientists have for many decades analysed political groupings and allegiances in more complex and varied ways than simplistic left-right. It's probably moved on but in my university days the textbooks used terms like 'cross-cutting cleavages'. In electoral systems with an element of PR these cleavages can be reflected in multiple political parties each with a degree of electoral viability. The Anglo-American system doesn't historically allow for this which is perhaps why we get a bit more stuck in the anachronistic L/R terminology and its substantive tensions.
 
Thanks for the diagram Sixthswan, that is exactly what I mean, though even that is breaking down, there is little or no room for shades of opinion, you are one thing or another and required to 'toe the line'.

Think of it as a Venn diagram but where none of the circles intersect.
 
In layman's terms, the British working classes are quite a conservative crowd, fiercely patriotic, which is twisted to mean racist, exeptionalist, but dont like being looked down on. They have little time for modern day, diner party socialist agendas, like boys being girls, BLM and Palestine.
 
SteveYork said:
Completely agree that the L/R labels are far from a complete guide, probably never have been in reality. Political scientists have for many decades analysed political groupings and allegiances in more complex and varied ways than simplistic left-right. It's probably moved on but in my university days the textbooks used terms like 'cross-cutting cleavages'. In electoral systems with an element of PR these cleavages can be reflected in multiple political parties each with a degree of electoral viability. The Anglo-American system doesn't historically allow for this which is perhaps why we get a bit more stuck in the anachronistic L/R terminology and its substantive tensions.
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If you ignore the 'jargon' that sounds about right.

The US system is fundamentally different though as it is, supposedly, a Constitutional Republic with consequent controls and limits on the party in power. Rather like the idea personally, though it all fell apart some 50-60 years ago when the US fell under control of the swamp (MIC).

In the UK we have, in effect, an elected dictatorship, even more so as politics becomes a business and few MPs now have any sense of decency, let alone any desire for actual public service. I am sure that has been the case for some time but it has become more apparent in recent years, well to me anyway.
 
astleyfox said:
In layman's terms, the British working classes are quite a conservative crowd, fiercely patriotic, which is twisted to mean racist, exeptionalist, but dont like being looked down on. They have little time for modern day, diner party socialist agendas, like boys being girls, BLM and Palestine.
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Not just the working class. Most people in the UK have little time for gender politics, BLM and Palestine.

Two of those issues are covered by the majority of people in the UK being tolerant and fair. We don't need to hear everyday about confused genders, or old racial prejudices. Most people aren't bothered about the former. The majority are not racist.

Palestine and global (it is round) politics should matter, but they don't to most.

It is the finer detail of everyday life that matters to people. Like our relationships with other people. Most marriages break up because of a combination of small things that irritate one, or both partners. Rather than one big event.

Same with politics. Minor irritations matter more than the bigger picture. The media and political teams scratch at those irritations. Sometimes they invent them. So even if something might be economically bad for an individual, they would choose its path if they have a social grievance(s).

Chuck in and appeal to the patriotism that people from all political hues have and you get a populist government.
 
Are we still arguing about this?
we had a vote, we voted to leave, and it's been up to the Tories to deliver it.
They've have been obfuscating for 4 years on a deal because, shock horror it's actually quite difficult, and here we are trying to rush something through like a 15 year old doing his homework at the last minute.
No way to run a country.
Oven ready bollox, these people couldn;t organise a piss up in a brewery givena brewey, beer and "piss ups in breweries 101".
 
4 year of you Anna Soubry types weeping and wailing trying to reverse the decision ain’t helped.
 
mac said:
4 year of you Anna Soubry types weeping and wailing trying to reverse the decision ain’t helped.
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I've never been in favour of reversing the original decision, that's undemocratic.
If there had been a second vote that had a different outcome that's another kettle of fish.
Brexit will be good for me personally as I'll save thousands when i buy a house over there.
Some of us don't just think about ourselves though.
 
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