Not Sure Whether I Feel Angry Or Ashamed
- Thread starter Sohofox
- Start date
Everybody talks about promotion to the PL as being the thing to achieve because of the tv money, but if you look at our losses before and after promotion we were doing single digit losses 2 mill 5 mill or whatever in the champ, and since 2016 where we made our one and only profit under the thais we've had heavy losses 10 to 15 times and more what we lost before.
We're financially worse off for being promoted (winning the league notwithstanding) not better.
We're financially worse off for being promoted (winning the league notwithstanding) not better.
buz_not_buzz
Occasional Poster
Actually we made profit in each of the first 4 seasons in the PL (the best being the CL season at +£80m, the following one we only just squeaked into profit). Our last promotion season from the championship we lost nearly £21m and £34m the season before that on much, much smaller revenues. And it is the revenues that owners are looking at. So, yes, PL is better in this regards. In an accounting sense our losses on a single year basis are not hugely out of the ordinary for PL clubs (even Man City's total accumulated P&L account showed nearly a £700m deficit in 2022 vs ours of £295m as of 2023) but in the context of PSR we just cannot cover 2 such losses in consecutive years with a relegation to easily get back in compliance.
DagenhamFox
Blue Roofer
Oh I’m not angry at all, we broke the rules and we have to live with the consequences.
What I am astounded at is by how much we broke the rules.
Failure to finish 4th especially that first season really did for us. Thanks Rodgers and thanks Covid.
Having said that, it might well have accelerated our position even more.
All I keep thinking is Jon Rudkin used to be in charge of our youth setup and somehow he became Director of Football when he has zero experience in such a lofty and important role. Employ an experienced DoF and none of this happens. Rodgers contract extension wouldn’t have happened. We’d have maybe let him go to Arsenal and brought someone new in but even if not we wouldn’t have put him in that hugely comfortable position.
You’d also think someone with real knowledge of the role would have been much more astute in player signings and contract extensions, our Achilles heel over the past 7 or 8 seasons.
I am ashamed how much we have been taken for a ride.
I am ashamed how grossly miss managed we have been.
I am ashamed we are going down fighting as I am certain we will come off worse for taking legal action against the Premier League and the Football League.
I am ashamed that after all of this they still treat the fans like shit, the very fans they’ll need around the club when we end up scrapping in the second and maybe the third league.
I am ashamed that we had a real chance to change the fate of our club forever after 2016 and we’ve fucked up monumentally.
Finally I am ashamed that the people who got us into this mess are still at our club and seemingly will be for the foreseeable future.
What I am astounded at is by how much we broke the rules.
Failure to finish 4th especially that first season really did for us. Thanks Rodgers and thanks Covid.
Having said that, it might well have accelerated our position even more.
All I keep thinking is Jon Rudkin used to be in charge of our youth setup and somehow he became Director of Football when he has zero experience in such a lofty and important role. Employ an experienced DoF and none of this happens. Rodgers contract extension wouldn’t have happened. We’d have maybe let him go to Arsenal and brought someone new in but even if not we wouldn’t have put him in that hugely comfortable position.
You’d also think someone with real knowledge of the role would have been much more astute in player signings and contract extensions, our Achilles heel over the past 7 or 8 seasons.
I am ashamed how much we have been taken for a ride.
I am ashamed how grossly miss managed we have been.
I am ashamed we are going down fighting as I am certain we will come off worse for taking legal action against the Premier League and the Football League.
I am ashamed that after all of this they still treat the fans like shit, the very fans they’ll need around the club when we end up scrapping in the second and maybe the third league.
I am ashamed that we had a real chance to change the fate of our club forever after 2016 and we’ve fucked up monumentally.
Finally I am ashamed that the people who got us into this mess are still at our club and seemingly will be for the foreseeable future.
blackthorn8
Roofer
Well said Daggers Rudkin for what l heard was not the best in his Youth set up
It's a lofty job DOF especially if you have little experience and this has been shown time and time again.
It's a lofty job DOF especially if you have little experience and this has been shown time and time again.
astleyfox
Roofer
I seem to remember Rudkin involved in local junior football, Blaby and Whetstone? He has been a very lucky man.
You say we had to the chance to change our fate but we tried that and it's partially responsible for the mess we are in now.
It beggars the question how the fuck is he still there!!?
I wouldn't let the pair of them stack shelves in Tesco.
ClaphamFox
Roofer
People are obsessed with Rudkin, but our transfer and wages budget would have been set and overseen at board level. It's their collective responsibility - it's not like Rudkin went rogue like some mad Malaysian pilot, locked himself in the cockpit and flew the plane into the depths of the south Pacific. The board won't sack themselves - the best we can hope for is that they admit they need help and recruit some people who can get us out of this mess.
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Can I just say, it's not my money so I don't give a fuck. We've always been skint, it's just we're a bit skinter than usual.
People say getting to the Premiership is great because of the money, but I never see any benefit so I no longer care.
For fuck sake just get on with playing entertaining football, let the thieving, cheating money men carry on fucking each other up the arse.
People say getting to the Premiership is great because of the money, but I never see any benefit so I no longer care.
For fuck sake just get on with playing entertaining football, let the thieving, cheating money men carry on fucking each other up the arse.
ClaphamFox
Roofer
We're not skint, though. We're completely hamstrung by rules designed to keep clubs like ourselves in our place, but that's very different to being skint.
blackthorn8
Roofer
Well Clapham he is at the top of the tree with
Susan, both are there to be shot at.
The massive repercussions from this debacle will have profound effect on the Club for years especially the playing side.
They get the accolades when things are great so they deserve a kick up the arse for overseeing our now financial woes
Susan, both are there to be shot at.
The massive repercussions from this debacle will have profound effect on the Club for years especially the playing side.
They get the accolades when things are great so they deserve a kick up the arse for overseeing our now financial woes
ClaphamFox
Roofer
Really?! I guess I must have missed those chants of 'There's only one Jon Rudkin' when we won the league...
When the clubs agreed to these rules they didn't see the bigger picture, they're still not really looking to the longer term and are more interested in squabbling among themselves rather than addressing the real problem of the money working it's way down the pyramid and of course the greedy cunts at the top not wanting to share.
SemperEadem
Roofer
Because most can’t bring themselves to point the finger at Top.
sixthswan
Non-Member
As a comparison, Everton have just published a similar loss to us - taking them over £500m in losses over the last five years.
Nothing to show for it...on the field...
We've spent over £100m on a training facility, gifted a £9m facility to the women's team, purchased a women's team, spend a fortune on the Academy, purchased land to expand the stadium and commercial offering, had a recent £194m wipe-off of debt from our owner - and they dare to say we aren't sustainable...it's a fucking joke and the Premier League BCC monopoly is the shameful thing...
Nothing to show for it...on the field...
We've spent over £100m on a training facility, gifted a £9m facility to the women's team, purchased a women's team, spend a fortune on the Academy, purchased land to expand the stadium and commercial offering, had a recent £194m wipe-off of debt from our owner - and they dare to say we aren't sustainable...it's a fucking joke and the Premier League BCC monopoly is the shameful thing...
Breadfan
Round the Bend
It is no irony that we won the PL on one of the smaller budgets. All for rewarding players like Vardy, Schmeichel etc who made it happen. Inevitable that some players would fukc off, and we got decent enough money for them. But we were fleeced by the agents of players bought to replace them. Then when they prove to be duds you can’t just shift them on. And when you bring in new unproven players on big bucks wages you upset the whole equilibrium. We had a model that more than delivered. Should have stuck with it.
Coatsworth
Registered
I’m angry. What they do internally is up to them.
It’s like being back at school for me again, getting all the shit thrown at me as it’s the team I support, like it’s my fault and I should have the piss taken out of me.
It’s not even simple economics, if there’s a rule or rules you have to follow, follow them.
sixthswan
Non-Member
Man up...we took on the BCCs and succeeded...it takes money to do it long-term...we fucked up after and our placings money accounts for the actual PSR loss (which is much less than the raw figures) - so we regroup and get back up there...and wait for FFP/PSR to be abandoned, which it will be - and we take on the PL and FL in the meantime and we stick two fingers up to anyone who takes the piss...
blackthorn8
Roofer
Well l can assure you l was not amongst themReally?! I guess I must have missed those chants of 'There's only one Jon Rudkin' when we won the league...
LGFOX
Roofer
I am angry, not just because of what I’m reading now, but where I feel the club will be going shortly, and that’s probably into the abyss.
That tragic October evening in 2018 is now turning into much more than just a personal situation for the family and us fans. It’s perfectly obvious to me that Top, albeit I’m sure a very decent chap, does not have the business acumen, drive or intelligence to do what his father did. Like many sons of billionaire parents, it’s not his fault, but quite simply he just hasn’t got it.
He has somehow allowed both Susan Whelan, and more importantly to me Rudkin, to drive us into the financial ground. I wrote a couple of weeks ago, that modern Football throughout the world has made thousands of millionaires out of very average people, whether they be players, coaches, agents, administrators, and even pundits. No business in this whole wide world has more frauds than Football. Rudkin is right up the top of the tree. It’s not his personal fault, but he’s been allowed to make decisions far above his experience and intellect within Football. Some of the salaries we have put these players on is off the scale. I’ve read that Bertrand was £75k/week. £4 MILLION PER WEEK just on salaries. Some of these players we’ve bought, must have literally been laughing their socks off along with their agents when they signed their contracts. Rodgers too. It’s the most appalling piece of business I’ve read in a very long time and I’ve never understood how Rudkin is still here, not just now, but for a number of years. That smug look he has on his face is extremely punchable. Top and his family have been taken for mugs, something his dad would never have allowed.
The blueprint right now is Brighton. Tony Bloom has bankrolled the club to the tune of £1/2 billion but they’ve done it the right way. I see they’ve just made a profit of £130 million. It’ll be more this season when they get the profits for Caicedo who went to Chelsea.
Finally, unless you’re one of the BCCs, getting into Europe for a couple of seasons can be a very problematic affair financially. It seems reading the stuff about us, that in poker terms we went all in. Staying in the Premier League, getting into Europe etc. We’re now seeing the consequences of that.
That tragic October evening in 2018 is now turning into much more than just a personal situation for the family and us fans. It’s perfectly obvious to me that Top, albeit I’m sure a very decent chap, does not have the business acumen, drive or intelligence to do what his father did. Like many sons of billionaire parents, it’s not his fault, but quite simply he just hasn’t got it.
He has somehow allowed both Susan Whelan, and more importantly to me Rudkin, to drive us into the financial ground. I wrote a couple of weeks ago, that modern Football throughout the world has made thousands of millionaires out of very average people, whether they be players, coaches, agents, administrators, and even pundits. No business in this whole wide world has more frauds than Football. Rudkin is right up the top of the tree. It’s not his personal fault, but he’s been allowed to make decisions far above his experience and intellect within Football. Some of the salaries we have put these players on is off the scale. I’ve read that Bertrand was £75k/week. £4 MILLION PER WEEK just on salaries. Some of these players we’ve bought, must have literally been laughing their socks off along with their agents when they signed their contracts. Rodgers too. It’s the most appalling piece of business I’ve read in a very long time and I’ve never understood how Rudkin is still here, not just now, but for a number of years. That smug look he has on his face is extremely punchable. Top and his family have been taken for mugs, something his dad would never have allowed.
The blueprint right now is Brighton. Tony Bloom has bankrolled the club to the tune of £1/2 billion but they’ve done it the right way. I see they’ve just made a profit of £130 million. It’ll be more this season when they get the profits for Caicedo who went to Chelsea.
Finally, unless you’re one of the BCCs, getting into Europe for a couple of seasons can be a very problematic affair financially. It seems reading the stuff about us, that in poker terms we went all in. Staying in the Premier League, getting into Europe etc. We’re now seeing the consequences of that.
blackthorn8
Roofer
I've got more experience of football matters than Rudkin, lve coached lve managed albeit in Leicestershire leagues but
The financial world is a whole new ball game.that l have never experienced its an uncompromising its full of underhand practices its a minefield l leave that to even the unscrupulous bastards
The financial world is a whole new ball game.that l have never experienced its an uncompromising its full of underhand practices its a minefield l leave that to even the unscrupulous bastards
Hampshirefox
Roofer
and who was Bertrand's agent? Rodgers son. Daylight robbery. It should never, ever have been sanctioned.
DagenhamFox
Blue Roofer
We had to do something differently not splash the cash anywhere near as much as we have done.
What we did was risky. What we should have done, carry on scouting for exceptional young players is also risky too.